So...how're we doing?

Likes: lots of decks already to choose from
Adventures (well one so far) to download and run
Rich website (fiction, personas, forums)
And you convinced TBS to carry Untold in store (with help, of course)
You guys know how to rock a con!

Dislikes: Hear mostly from Ashy and Nathan (as far as WMS staff goes) - would like to hear from others too, but I know how unpredictible schedules can get (I got home from my nine-to-five job at 8:30 tonight.)
Shipping seems so slow in this age of instant gratification
My blank-card idea seemed to get misheard (partly my fault for not pressing my idea so I'll try again)

I did this very quickly, so it's not polished like I prefer my posts - but I wanted the first things that came to mind.

Thanks for replying, Lumberklik!

I can definitely work on getting the other WMS on here. I was just fussing at Hall about that today, as a matter of fact. :P
We're working the shipping as well, but it would help to hear from others how shipping has been from them.
Blank card idea??

Feel free to add more and I hope to hear from others!

I've got several things that I think we could do better and many opinions about what I believe we're doing right. However, a majority of them I don't feel comfortable talking about on the forums. I really believe that these things are "For Your Eyes Only" with regards to the WM. I know secretive really isn't your style, but these are things that I think should be handled from the inside...

Ok - send 'em on! :)

sounding off! ;)

I don't know if that exactly counts there, Hall. :P

Pros:
1.) Your system is excellent. I honestly can find no fault with the game system as it exists.
2.) You are very responsive to your player base, answering forum comments within 24 hours in almost every case and bringing player commentary/suggestions into honest consideration for in-game inclusion (or modification). The close relationship with the player-base is something hard to find and very good for both the game and the business. Good job.
3.) (WARNING: Marketing Speak Ahead) Your blend of "new media" engagement with your players combined with your theft-resistant game system seems to me to be a very effective concept in marketing this thing to the FLGSs. You'd have to invest a lot of time and effort into pirating Untold, and the final cost might well be nearly as much as buying it, so you have a much better price-to-product ratio than other RPGs in terms of retail sales. People don't often buy what they can pull off a torrent, and since it's so tough to do that with Untold you should have better storefront product movement. Meanwhile, you're using the Internet to crowd-source your advertising with product devotees and promote through non-traditional channels. Regardless of whether or not you intended to implement this for such a reason, this is an excellent marketing strategy.
4.) Speaking of price, your price point is excellent.
5.) Your rules system is intuitive and simple to both comprehend and alter as desired. This goes back to point 1, somewhat, except for the fact that you can easily make even a very good system impossible to understand if you provide a poor explanation.
6.) You can store your character's QRC sheet in your wallet. I can't begin to explain how awesome this is, given how often my players utterly ravage their normal character sheets while at the table. One all but crinkles his into a tiny ball, and yet he leaves the QRC un-marred because it's so tiny he doesn't feel the need to fold, crumple, roll, or otherwise mutilate it.
7.) You can turn Untold into a fully-functional CCG, RPG, war game, or even a board game with very little effort. It's extremely flexible and capable of being inclusive to many varied forms of play. Just assign points, build, and go.
8.) Likewise, character creation takes 30 minutes or so for a first-timer and as few as five minutes every time after. This again goes back to point one, but there are other "easy" systems that still eat the first night in character creation.
9.) Forum-wise, you run a tight ship. I cannot really overstate the importance of this, because this is probably the second major encounter anyone is going to have with Untold after a convention or CUBE and a site full of trolls, spam, and flame wars could easily turn people off from the system. The UP "points" system you've instituted is a great way to keep things under control, because it actively rewards people for being "good citizens" on the site and catching any problems that might crop up outside your notice, but I also have to give kudos for maintaining a consistent official presence on these boards and providing quick response when you see anything outside acceptable etiquette for the public presence of your product.
10.) Speaking of which, I also have to point out that everyone I've had official "Untold business" dealings with has been polite, kind, and - above all - welcoming. The gaming community has a tendency to fragment and factionalize, so that's an accomplishment in and of itself. Presenting a universally-positive public face is a tough thing to do, but it's a huge draw to people who might otherwise be ambivalent about the system... because if everyone associated with Untold is having fun, the only logical conclusion is to figure it must be a fun game.

Now, unfortunately, to the less-positive part. I intend to keep this constructive, however. I'll also note that I expect to have to reach to get to ten cons, though I hope that'll prompt me to brainstorm some less-noticeable-yet-still-important ones.

Cons:
1.) You are *required* to register on this site to order from it, a fact that frankly puzzles me. Almost every other e-commerce site allows ordering without registration, as long as valid billing and shipping information is submitted, so why is Untold different? I must admit, I'm normally very reticent to actually go through the registration process for most sites online and the fact that I *had* to create a user name and site identity for Untold nearly kept me from placing my first online order. If I paused at that point, others will certainly abort at that point. You really should either explain in the ordering process why you require registration or allow orders to go through without it.
2.) You announce your C.U.B.E. scheduling *way* too late in the game online. A week or more should be the goal, so people can clear a space in their schedules to attend. Indeed, the only reason my friends are likely going to be able to come to the local C.U.B.E. I'll be helping to run is because I knew about it long before its official announcement and could tell them to make the time to come participate. That'll also allow more time to spread the word and get feet in the door, something that would be beneficial to both you and the FLGS owners.
3.) Speaking of scheduling, I wish there was a deck release schedule up on the site so I could plan my purchases. I understand it's being worked on, but even something tentative or a generalized "we intend to release a deck to the store at least every X weeks" would be a good thing.
4.) The order fulfillment and shipping times you're dealing with due to the P.O.D. setup you're using is significantly longer than most online ordering sites. Some sort of order-page explanation for the reasoning behind the lag time would certainly help make it more palatable for buyers who don't want to go browsing the forum for explanations.
5.) You should look into holding some "Untold Battle" tournaments in addition to the C.U.B.E.s - the Battle system doesn't really get much attention for being something included in every deck as a core feature. Indeed, until Ben posted about his possible modification to the Battle system the forum for it lay untouched. I hope to have time to put some effort into exploring it in the future, as several of my friends are former CCG players and I think it's an avenue to turn them from spectators into buyers... but I can't imagine they're the only ones for whom the prospect of "the CCG you don't have to trust to fate to get the cards for" is a major selling point. I really feel this market isn't being explored as much as it could be.
6.) I mentioned the forum UP "points" system above. I understand that there is indeed a reasoning for its existence beyond being a digital gold-star reward for good behavior, but that reason has not been further explained or implemented yet. Some sort of information on this would be nice.
7.) Speaking of which, any form of "coming attractions" preview would be nice. Planned site features, card concepts, and so on - forum postings have hinted at future vehicle cards, for instance, but unless you dig through the threads you're not going to see or know about that. Give your buyers a reason to expect more to come! I understand that you don't have a firm time-table on most (or perhaps any) of the long-range ideas, but simply producing a "we plan to do this with Untold in the future" preview should help draw in potential players who are on the edge about the system but hesitating because "they don't have X." To put it simply - it's good to leave mystery on how you're going to do something, or what that thing's going to do, but don't leave anyone guessing as to whether you intend to do it!
8.) Not enough "cons" for me to make a proper "top ten" list.
9.) Not enough "cons" for me to make a proper "top ten" list.
10.) Not enough "cons" for me to make a proper "top ten" list.

(Seriously, I couldn't think of any others. And I tried!)

Basically, the one central theme for the few problems I see with your operation can be summed up in three words: "not enough information." You need to share more of your reasons, plans, and future goals on the SITE (and not just on the forum) so everyone can understand what you're thinking and be reassured that you know what you're doing (even if you have to fake that reassurance!). There's no reason to let misunderstandings or bad assumptions form in anyone's head when a small note can head it off at the pass. We live in paranoid times, and many people will be quick to draw the worst conclusions from a lack of clear information. Prevent it!

I am going to concentrate on the forums and WMS side, since the game itself is fine.

1. The ordering-and-shipping process leaves a bit to be desired. For me, while I would love better shipping turn-around times, the lack of information (or incorrect info) around an order's status is very annoying and much more critical. If you've ever ordered from Amazon.com, you know how they track at a very fine-grained level your order's status. I'd like to see the equivalent here.
2. Related to above: making sure we have right-and-proper end-to-end tracking of every shipment.
3. It seems that WMS has a lot on the plate, from forum extensions to new products to demos. My biggest request is to be careful and not burn yourselves out. If WMS does that, we're in trouble, because we're not in a place to replace y'all in this. Supplement yes, replace no.
4. Related to above: delegate. You've started that with asking for Battle scenarios, among things. Pick specific, concrete things we can help with, and let us know.
5. Stock-keeping units (SKUs): back about 10 years ago, DP9/Marc Vezina did a survey for GAMA of brick-and-mortar stores, to find out how big a 'game line' should be for stores to keep up with. He found that anything over six (6) items in a single game-line was more than most stores wanted to manage. More than this, and stores often only stock "latest and greatest", unless it was their key money-making line. WMS will need to find a way to help stores manage this so they can maintain stock easily.
6. Share your vision. I would like to know where you plan on going with this in the next 2 to 5 years. Not in a detail-spoiling way, but what the 'big picture' is.

If I think of more, I'll post them later.

I'll take 'em by the numbers:
Cons
1.) Sadly, there's not anything we can do about this. When we were looking at e-commerce solutions, we thought that this would be the best one, AND it integrated with our site (i.e. "single sign on", so to speak). We think that the community-building and overall long-term ease-of-use benefits greatly outweigh any negatives.

2.) Yea, I thought about this too. I worried, however, that folks would forget about C.U.B.E.s if they were announced to far ahead of time. GMBaal is working on an Untold calendar, so maybe this will help fix some of these issues.

3.) I can make this happen. Right now, we plan to release at least one deck every other week. More details are coming.

4.) Again, I'll see what I can do about this. We're also working on the shipping turn-around time as hard as we can.

5.) I agree. Nathan's kinda the Official Battle guy, and he's more slammed than me at the moment. As soon as he gets a bit more time, you'll be seeing more things like this. Also, all Certified Untold GM's should feel free to run Battle Demos at their C.U.B.E.s (sorta like what Lumberklik just did...)

6.) True. We should be releasing something about this soon.

7.) Ok, and where would you suggest something like this go?

Ok, and where would you suggest something like this go?

My recommendation is to make a page on the site specifically dedicated to "What's Coming Up in Untold?" Fold the Convention Schedule, Events Calendar link, Release Schedule (when it's complete), and this sort of "Preview of Things to Come" into that single page, so people who want to know what you're up to can take a look and know everything soon-to-come all at once. One-stop shopping for upcoming Untold, as it were.

:)

I'll take them in numerical order:

1. I'd also like to get that level of tracking on our packages. Sadly, however, that costs $$, which are usually passed on to the buyer. Would everyone be willing to pay another dollar or two per shipment to pay for this sort of thing? As I said above, we're working hard on the response time.
2. See above.
3. Amen. :P
4. There's alot of this already underway. You're about to see a new webmaster appointed and a site editor, too. We're also "bringing on" an Assistant Demo Coordinator and a Product Manager. :D
5. This has already been done. It's part of our standard Retailer package.
6. Hurm...ok - I will see what can be done about this.

1.) Sadly, there's not anything we can do about this. When we were looking at e-commerce solutions, we thought that this would be the best one, AND it integrated with our site (i.e. "single sign on", so to speak). We think that the community-building and overall long-term ease-of-use benefits greatly outweigh any negatives.

If you think that the benefits outweigh any negatives, then it's not a bug - it's a feature, and you should let everyone know that you think it's a positive aspect of Untold sales. Explain on the page where it requires you to sign up that it's to promote usage of and participation within the Untold community, allow easy order tracking, and so on and so forth. In fact, once you get the forum UP system officially up and running you should likewise mention the rewards for actively joining in.

Treat this as an opportunity to follow-up with interested buyers and help fold them into the "Untold enthusiast" banner. It's only really problematic in my opinion if you leave it as-is, in its unusual-and-yet-uncommented-upon state. Once it's explained and put in a positive light, you're golden.

Interesting comments - thanks!

Keep 'em coming everyone!

I have a follow-on question. So far, everyone has been happy with the website. What about the frequency of updates? We try and have something new every day on the site. Is that too much? Too little? What?

Also, where has everyone been lately? The forums have seemed a little "vacant" the past couple of weeks... :P

So far, everyone has been happy with the website. What about the frequency of updates? We try and have something new every day on the site. Is that too much? Too little? What?

I'd say "just right," if you ask me. The forum doesn't move so quickly that you have to watch it constantly or be buried in a flood of postings, and at the same time there's consistently something new on a very regular basis.

Also, where has everyone been lately? The forums have seemed a little "vacant" the past couple of weeks...

I tend more to reply to things instead of initiate them, mostly because I have a lot of other things I'm trying to get done as well as maintain something vaguely approaching a real-world social life. I suspect that everyone else is about the same - they either don't have much to say in CREATING a conversation, or alternatively have lots of other activities they're trying to juggle and don't feel that creating new threads is the best thing they can be doing at the moment. Summer's a busy time of year if you're not a kid, after all.

"real-world social life..."

Wazzat???? :P

Alright, I have to agree with the others in that the game itself is good. I think, for the most part, things are pretty good.

Pros
1. The response time on the forums is good, but I do think that it seems very much run by Ashy. While I like Ashy, he is one person with one opinion and one view.
2. For the most part, the website works, though in the cons section, I will post how I think it could be made more user friendly, because, quite frankly, I don't like how some things are set up. (Please note that this is just an opinion, because the website is usable, this is just a complaint because it could be made more user friendly, it just isn't)

Cons
1. I agree with MHM that there should be a tab dedicated to the Untold schedule. CUBE events, Cons, release dates, and anything else can be posted here. Don't just have a calendar either. Talk about things like the future of vehicles in Untold.
2. Events should be released at least 2 weeks in advance. And mention it more than once. But MHM is correct. You release it right before it happens and its not enough time for people to clear their schedule to go. Also, if you give at least 2 weeks, then people who may need to take time off of work to go, can have some time to plan for that. Not everyone works a M-F, 8-5 job and that should be taken into consideration.
3. We have an Untold fan page on Face book (Pro, BTW). The Con? 40 people like us...while Das Wandering Men have 1,058 friends. I see a serious problem in this. If it doesn't get better, sack Untold on facebook and focus just on Das Wandering Men. They each post the same thing...more than once...and for the 40 people who are members of both, it gets annoying, at least for me, because I know you are not hitting people that are strictly with Untold.
4. We have a News section of Untold (which would be a good place to put number 1, but give it its own tab). Problem...it hasn't been updated since September 2009!!! (Though when you click on it, it pops up with Untold Stories and is dated July 2009).
5. The Personas and Ecology section are really cool. I do not, however, like the randomness of it. It appears to simply be posted newest releases first. But if I'm looking for Kliks, I have to click each page to find the Kliks. Then, when I go back to the list, it starts at the beginning! This is frustrating! And that, would not actually bother me so badly, if I could organize them by Klik, L'Na, Apoc, Undead, etc. When I was reading through them a while back, I got seriously frustrated so many times that it took me a week to read through all of them because of how it worked.
6. I hate the way your online store is set up. Once you get to the store, there are mini tabs across the top that direct you to specifics, which is a good thing and should stay the same (unless you need to add more at some point). However, when you scroll down, you see New Releases, which has 4 pages. Most of which has been out since the first product was released and all of us on here have seen (except for the more recent stuff which doesn't even take up the first page). Then below that is Core Recent Releases. I do not really understand the logic in how this was done. Have a single page that has new releases (one every 2 weeks would mean that you would have 2 decks a month, so the decks released in the last 3 months would be seen here). From there, have a Core section with the stuff already in it. Have another section with Battle decks, Iconic Race decks, etc. This would allow people to view all of the products on one page but in sections, accordingly (instead of whatever random system you have now)
7. Now that I bring it up, consider having groupings in the store for each race and then for minions. For example, in the minions section, put the GM's minions, but also include the Battle decks. Why? Because I simply view the Battle decks as minions for campaigns. But also have a Battle section which can include the Battle decks , but also the GM's minions. As more decks for each are added, put them in both if possible. Looking at cards for Kliks? Have a Klik section that includes both iconic character decks, Core Klik Races, Clockwork Components, and Heavy Metal (as well as the future releases). This might be an interesting way to go for people who are race specific. Or, if someone is trying to do something specific for their character, they can go to the race that would dominate that ability and look through the decks for the cards they need. This might be extremely helpful as more and more decks are released. That way, the Powers section does not become overwhelmed completely with every race power available (unless you choose to keep it for people who want to simply browse them all in one view) and people can narrow down their search.
8. Your fiction page also needs some serious organization. If I want to read all of Sarge's tale, I do not want to "scroll" through everything else to find it. If I'm new to this website, I might want to read all of them as I go. But if someone that views Untold for the first time, and they go to that page, they would have to scroll to the bottom, go to Page 3, and then they could finally read Shadows of the Mind part 1 and Sarge's Tale part 1. Page 2? Starts with Shadows of the Mind Part 4...I have to scroll to the bottom to find part 2. Have tabs across the top with each characters entire story (with Part 1 at the top). On the Fiction page (the page you end up on when you click fiction), put the most recent story. You don't release stories back to back, so allow the most recent story to be viewed on that page for 1-2 weeks (or more, that is up to the WM). When the next story releases, clear off that one, then add the new one. But the stories don't disappear...they are more user friendly in their own Character tab at the top Under the Fiction tab.
9. FYI: I did find a Con schedule...under the Media tab. At least put it where it makes sense (News would be good...then maybe a 2010 date can make an appearance)
10. Overall, while the forum response is good, I do think there is a lack of communication between WMS and its followers in some areas. The UP gained in forums is never clearly talked about anywhere. MHM was right. We mention gaining UP at cons, but nothing is explained anywhere on this website about it. I have not ordered anything, but if your login for ordering is the same as for the forums...that is fabulous!! That saves many people the hassle of registering for one, and then the other. And if UP works the way you say it will, then that will allow easy crossever in the future. However, tell people that that is how it works. If that's not the case, then explain why.
11. This is a personal complaint. I do not like that you have to register to see the Newsletter. I registered for the Newsletter last year at Mobicon. I re-registered multiple times on your website. And I have never, not once, recieved a Newsletter. And I have had this same e-mail for 10+ years.
12. The Untold FAQ section of the forums should actually have something. I'm sure everyone on here, from playing at cons, demos, and with their friends, can submit ideas to fill this area. I have a ton of ideas on information that might be good to put here. I suggested something a while ago from just listening to people at cons, that would be good to add. Ben and I even wrote an article regarding that question (we wrote seperate ones, but you asked us to combine them and co-write it). But we have recieved no feedback regarding the article. Even if it sucks and you ask someone else to write it, it would be nice to know that the time and effort put into it was acknowledged.

These are just my personal suggestions regarding how some things could be run a little smoother from my vantage point. While this website is better than the previous one, I do think that it still lacks the organization that is needed for a website wanting to draw people in. Untold's name is getting out fast...through cons, stores, people, and even other websites. If its not organized, easy to maneuver, and looks like the whole website is kept up to date (Click on News under Untold for a great example), then people will not come back. While many Untold users to come to the forums, I never, ever posted or even read forums before I got involved with Untold. And you need to consider that. Just because we talk on here, doesn't mean the guy that read about us at X-website is going to come to the forums to figure out what we are about.

WOW, looks like Nathan and I have lots to do on the site! :) Thanks for all the feedback, Dovebear! I will address each point separately in a future post, but I'm about to lose my laptop to the IT Guys (yikes)! So let me address two things really quickly:

11. Did you get a newsletter this morning? You should have. If not, email me. I did not know you were having issues - if I don't know there's a problem, I cannot fix it. :P

12. Excellent point. If you'd like to become the Official Keeper of the FAQ, I'd love to hand it to you - let me know. Also, regarding your article - Lumberklik and I are currently fighting for it! He wants it for the next newsletter and I want it for the site for an update next week. So, consider it approved and very much loved! It will see light soon; sorry I've not been more responsive - lots of irons in the fire at the moment. :P

More responses soon!

RE #6 & 7

IMO Core releases should allways be featured when you come into the store - because that is what people need to get in the game quickly.

As to the organization of the page - instead of having one huge page with "new release" sections, that is what the drop down menu box is for. "Pack Type (change this to view releases by pack type)" select the new releases from the type you're interested in:adventures, minions, etc and that automatically gives you a smaller list to scroll through.

Alright, I agree that the Core Starter set should be featured first, since that is what you need to start this game, wrapped up in one big box. However (and this is from my perspective seen at cons), Core Aspects, Basic Banes, and GM Minions does not sell well. So why keep all of the Core stuff grouped nicely together while everything else is jumbled together in New Releases? And, as I did mention earlier, keep the core stuff together. But you don't need 4 pages of New Releases. But instead of including anything that is not Core into the New Releases section, try this:
-Have a single page (in its current section) of New Release that would include the 6 most recently released decks. If one is released every two weeks, that would be three months worth of new releases on a single page.
-Below the Core section, have everything else. If you choose to keep the grouping as is, a section with iconic characters would be a single page. A section with powers would be longer (maybe not now, but definitely in the future). Environment too would grow. And so on...
-Your tabs work (though a little color so that they are more obvious might be helpful). But consider offering different groupings. Some of the groupings should stay the same, such as Adventures, Environments, and Core. But why not offer a tab that says "Klik". Then everything I want for Kliks is in one nice spot. It would make for easy reference to see what someone has or doesn't have. If you want to keep the groupings you have, that's fine. If you like the idea, instead of changing any groupings, simply add. Each tab has repeat decks so there shouldn't be a problem. And with only 3 Races currently, that's only 3 tabs.

I suggested this because a common question from people (seen at cons) is...if I want to boost my L'Na (Klik, Churl, etc.), what would you recommend. If people ask that at cons, why not answer it for them on the website store. One thing to think about is this...as the product selections grows, the online store will have to be ready to adapt to that. The Iconic characters will probably never change (unless you do decide to add more in the future), but its only 6 decks. But what about the sections that will and should continue to grow? If each core race (3) has at least 3 decks to supports each sub-race(Tripod/Roller, Churl/Highbred, Dawn/Twilight), that's 18 decks (3 pages) that would be found in the powers section. And that's stuff I see happening in the next year. I'm assuming that more will be added in the future, which means a general Powers tab could be well over 10 pages in the future. Note: you already have 10 powers available. And they are either Core or Race Specific.

This is my thought when looking at this website, and this is how it should be presented:
This if the main communication that WMS has with its fans and players. If you do not communicate well on here, then people will grow frustrated (see MHM's response to shipping and ordering). So when adding stuff to the website, ask yourself, how would someone that has just been introduced to us view this? Does it answer any questions they might have? Does it even make sense? People that we meet at cons get to talk to you in person, so you can answer any current questions for them there. But that is only with what they presently know and can see (such as the product we are selling there). When you leave that con, your main way to communicate with those people is through this website. And if those people get frustrated, imagine how someone who found us (maybe through a friend or a gaming website) might view this website. If you walk into a store where its dirty, out-dated, disorganize, and you can't find what you are looking for, will you ever come back? Probably not. This whole website is your "store" to talk about, display, and sell Untold. Make people want to come back.

I think what you mean to say is that while the individual packs of Core Aspects, Basic Banes, and GM Minions tend not to sell well as separate packs, they do sell well as part of the Starter Set, ya? :)

Exactly! Those decks are included in the starter, and the starter is a great deal, so people tend to buy the decks that way.

BTW: Consider highlighting the starter on the store site. Its a great deal when someone is just starting out.

Yea, I've been thinking of doing a "Deck of the Week" Highlight on the "off" weeks when we do not have a new release. I just haven't been able to figure out how to make that content "value added" for someone who already has the deck while at the same time being something that new users could benefit from as well. :P

Ooooh....that's easy. And you don't even have to do anything. Have someone who has that deck write something cool, interesting, helpful. Make it fun, entertaining, and more informative than the product write up. I don't have the Melee Weapons deck yet, but I so have a write up in my head that might draw attention to it and put a unique spin on the deck and how it can be used. How long were you thinking?

About FAQ...I'd love to take that over. I even know how I'd tackle it to start with, that is of course, after you and Nathan let me know how you want it done and handled. You can e-mail or call me about it if you want, or we can talk on here. I'll do anything to help out within my realm of ability.

Sounds great! Please give me a call this evening after 7 and we can talk about both!

BTW, Dovebear, did you get a newsletter this AM?

I surely did! First thing I read this morning (who needs a paper when you have Untold?). I don't know why I never got one before, but I mentioned it sometime last summer and then just decided to read Ben's.

Excellent! I double-checked your settings, so all should be well. :)

is that there isn't a search function on the site..unless i am overlooking it somewhere...i dont like trying to remember which post had something im looking for and having to reread tons of subjects, while interesting it could get old ...im not sure if someone mentioned it or not.. (i dont think it is terribly important, its just my own problem)

other than that i love everything (EVERYTHING!!!)