The Highbred Martial Society - My thoughts

First, only in contemporary times have we found such huge reliance of our military on civilian contractors, even if these "civilians" perform security or quasi-military functions. In previous wars, at least for the US military, functions like cooking, cleaning, construction (and other things that don't necessarily start with 'c') were handled by military personel. Think Seabees or Army Corps of Engineers.

However, I would argue that High-Bred society is militaristic not just because of their origin. Consider the post-Event world. Any High-Bred enclaves that failed to place a priority on combat expertise and survival probably succumbed if they did not adopt a new strategy. I would argue that the prevalence of military High-Bred is not by design but necessity.

Regardless, because the game is so maleable, a player is not confined to a military role. Yes, the BODY stats help in a fight, but avenues exists currently to define a skillful expert or diplomat or scoundrel or mystic or any number of concepts that would shy from direct combat. And I'm sure more is in the works as Untold grows.

As the universe of Splintered Serenity expands, there may be small communities of High-Breds that are not overtly military in organization or function. The Klik-dominated region of the Iron Curtain could be one example: those Klik might view an armed and organized High-Bred population as a threat and so deliberately keep them from assuming what might be ingrained roles. (Again, some defensive organization is required to allow the community to survive, just in this case the High-Bred are not allowed to participate as such.)

Feel free to play the NAU as you see fit. Officially, all members of the NAU (even children and elderly) are considered combatants and are trained as soldiers. All members of the NAU understand that they are soldiers first and then scientists, bureaucrats, or farmers second. The world of the NAU is hard, harsh and filled with danger at every possible turn - they are ever vigilant. ;)

Well, like I said in the original post, every individual within the society has some form of military training, and most of the elderly "civilians" were most likely veteran soldiers who are too old or impaired to continue fighting.

I compare the NAU to the Mongols and Vikings, where every individual in the community was encourage and in some cases required to stand in the defense of the realm if necessary. But it is the regular warriors that fought on the front lines.

And what about NE, The Dreaming, and ASEAS? Wouldn't these Highbred societies have large amounts of civilians?

Of those listed, NE and ASEAS are likely the ones to have the most folks akin to normal "civilians"...

I always figured the NAU had a sort of Spartan system. As soon as you're old enough to fight you train to kill and defend just like the adults. Everyone is expected to fight should the base leader or 'chief' command it. Attach military discipline to every aspect of life, and understand that foremost you are a fighter. If a child is sent out into the field, it may be just as dangerous as any mission a hardened vet would receive.

Of course this still leaves plenty of room for diverse strategies, personal philosophies, etc. Everyone is trained to be able to do the same thing, but everyone lives it out differently.

I think these are the very reasons that I hate playing the NAU. If I could be more scientist oriented, medic oriented or something like that, I might enjoy them. I'd still feel like I would have to carry some weapons, but not the way most people play the NAU. But unfortunately, there are not cards out there to support a non-combat heavy NAU. They are too combat heavy, which as a female player, I do not like. I like to focus a bit more on the story telling and the character development and I do not feel that stricly combat-oriented characters allow for that. Its not impossible, its just not the prevalent focus of NAU. This is what I have seen in the situations I have been in and I think its actually a continuing problem Untold is having.

I had a really good conversation with a few people this past weekend at the CUBE and I will be happy to detail it. But the agreement tended to be that Untold is very combat focused. And while in the beginning, the game appeals to women who love the story-telling aspect of RPG's, but hate all of the rule books and everything, in the end, the game pushes these same women away due to the lack of the ability to tell a story. A real story with detailed character background and development, not a "I got this spell because I found my soul due to this experience...". And any game I have witnessed or been a part of has been combat focused. And if I played in it, I hated it. I know part of this is the GM, but I feel that this is going to become a problem. There has really been only one game that I have seen that I probably would have enjoyed and that was Hall's Con Carolina game. Oh, and if you disagree, look at Bad Beginnings...it is all combat and that is the game you tend to open with at Cons.

My only problem with that assumption is that it doesn't really address the issue of the support personnel that this thread was originally concerned with. Even in Sparta there were countless philosophers, farmers, merchants, craftsmen, etc, that never saw combat. It might be better to compare that idea to the model of Feudal Japan or Feudal Europe, in which there were peasants who were farmers, craftsmen, etc. who could be conscripted to serve as basic infantry, with a small amount of military training and weaponry, but after the fighting was over returned to their daily routine. And this force was lorded by Samurai or Knights who were, for all intents and purposes, in a different social caste. They had the money and time to dedicate to training, and acquiring war materials. But the basic infantryman was just a peasant with a spear or pike, and after the fighting was done, went home.

I would present for consideration in this discussion the example of the Clans from Battletech. The Clans are a martial society broken down into castes, with warriors at the top, followed by scientists, technicians, merchants and laborers respectively (the arrangement may vary from Clan to Clan). The Warriors have the ultimate say in all disputes and matters of government, but the other castes are required for the well being and survivial of the Clan as a whole. A warrior may be at the top of society, but would be useless without the scientists to develop new weapons, the technicians to build and repair them, the laborer to acquire raw materials and foodstuffs, and merchants to buy what the Clan can't grow or doesn't have access too.

The NAU, with its near constant fight for survival and technological setbacks (canon states that they can't use powerplants and the like because of undead and other monstrocities) would most likely follow the Feudal example. Where there are the front line warriors, but everyone in the society has some form of military training and can be used to "round out" a force if necessary. These individuals would be little more than grunts and after the fighting was done, would be sent back to their everyday job of farming or whatever. A more modern example could be like the FBI. Every agent has some form of combat training, but not everyone is forced to employ it daily. Instead, they must take tests (last I checked it was every year, but could be different according to various fields) to prove they were still combat capable. But you will still have your paper pushers and bureaucrats as well as your field agents.

The NE or ASEAS I believe would follow more of the Clan example from Battletech. With their origins in Highbred society, these cultures would most likely follow a caste system, influenced heavily by military hierarchy and the warriors/soldiers would most likely be on top of the cultural pyramid. From there, scientists, laborers, etc. would be ranked according to need and usefulness, and would have some say, but not the amount of power that a soldier would enjoy.

Er...

No one says you have to play NAU as combatants - that's just the way they appear in the setting. The NAU serve a particular ROLE in the larger STORY of the game. However, no one HAS to play NAU any particular way. If you want a story-based NAU character - awesome! Go for it! We actually have some fiction in the works that features just those sorts of NAU...

Further, as has been stated in the past, we're not even 6 months out of the gate yet; there will be more powers coming out that allow players to focus more on non-combat, however, the bulk of the folks that play RPGs want a well-rounded combat experience, so that's what we had to produce initially. I, like you, Dovebear, would rather (most of the time) sitting and role-playing for 6 hours with a little combat thrown in here and there as opposed to 6 hours of combat with a little role-playing mixed in for good measure.

To date, I've not had an issue doing just so.

Bad Beginnings: Alpha offers role-play opportunities with every encounter, if you chose to take that path, as will the remaining sections of the adventure(s).

Just to prove a point, here's an NAU build destined for role-play:

Apoc High-bred
Body 1
Mind 1
Soul 1

Awareness
Burst of Speed
Concentration 3
Commando Training, Basic
Danger Sense
Diplomatic
Driven 3
Field Medic Pack 2 (x3)
Insightful
Ki Strike
Medical Training 3
Quick Response
Silver Tongued

Nells "Nails" McBride
Nells was always a severe and stoic child. Many of his fellow NAU say that it was seeing his parents brutally attacked before his 7 year old eyes; others say he was simply born that way. Regardless, something deep, dark and powerful lies silent beneath the man's dark grey eyes. It is those eyes that gave him his name - they're the same color as 10 penny nails and when he stares you down, it certainly feels like someone's pinning you to the wall with a nail-gun.

However, don't take that to mean that "Nails" is a gun-toting Rambo - nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, "Nails" refuses to carry a weapon of any kind, preferring to act as a medic and diplomat for any NAU detachment to which he is assigned. While many other NAU consider his "pacifist" attitude to be something of a detriment to their military lifestyle, the NAU brass has seen how his cool head, detached mindset and the penchant for talking first and taking other actions second have spared many more lives than even the biggest gun could have ever done. Further, his ability to quickly access injuries and repair them has brought many an boy-in-fatigues home safely.

Do not take "Nails" for a pansy, however, as when backed into a corner, he has the uncanny ability to strike -- and strike hard. "Nails" is a pacifist only to a certain point; he will defend himself if pressed and when he hits, he makes sure that he only has to hit once.

Ask I said above:

"All members of the NAU understand that they are soldiers first and then scientists, bureaucrats, or farmers second. "

However, in your game, feel free to make the NAU however you want. Maybe there's a small outpost of High-bred south of Lake Michigan who've never been "incorporated" into the NAU. Maybe they DO live like farmers, or feudal Japanese, or aliens from the planet X.

It's up to you. :P

I was just offering some examples of different ways someone can take the story. In some ways, its a good thing that the game hasn't overly developed any factions or anything because they can be left open ended for the players to modify as wanted. But like I said, just sharing my thoughts on the subject.

And in Dovebears defense, the only games shes really been exposed to are demo games I run, in which I try to provide ample opportunity for combat in order to help the players learn the system, the game I usually run in which my players are shoot first and ask questions later, and Cap's game...and well...that was a unique experience for all of us. If she had played all the way through Hall's game, she might feel a little differently. I've offered but she doesn't really want to play with the very combat oriented players in my group, or really with me as a GM because she's only seen me run combat heavy games.

And I understand. A few months ago I voiced the desire to have a non-combatant character. And while there are not as many non-combatant cards as there are combatant cards, if you get a little creative, you can still build a very fun non-combatant with several decks, and still not be totally useless in combat.

I want to make a NAU soldier, or a whole base, that relies on the philosophy 'any fight not fought is a fight won'.

Not to say that they're cowards, but they work diligently, as spies, diplomats, etc. to ensure that as little physical conflict occurs as possible. This applies to the creatures too. If you can't run from it, try to trap it. No need to kill it if it doesn't need to die.

Their skillsets are a good bit different from your regular NAU, but as they can resolve issues of all varieties without coming to blows (technically it's only a fight if they fight back, so a key assassination here and there could be useful), they'd be a scary force to have as an enemy.

Go for it! Post it! :D

I might make it an organization within the NAU itself. But I could see the NE or ASEAS having something like that.

I don't have a build in mind sadly. If I design one, I'll be sure to post it.

Also, in an adventure of mine, I created a loophole to the power supply and technology issues. However, in my adventure, while the system is installed in NAU territory, it's not run by the NAU. DUN DUN DUUUUUN. For the adventure, it's called the Phlegethon System. I think MHM has a setting in mind that would use the principle.

http://www.gabbly.com/http://www.untoldthegame.com/

Good character, Ashy! Actually gave me an idea for something else that would be NAU, but different. And you are right. You can do it. But I think my biggest problem is finding a GM who will help create a more story oriented game and then finding a group who is not so combat heavy. And unfortunately, that leaves me out in the cold, as every other RPG has done. I love Untold but I'm beginning to feel frustrated with it. I have the most awesome Klik character (that could be made better with Heavy Metal, but I haven't gotten it yet). But he has been practically useless in every game I have played. When I play him, I use the same two cards over and over again because there is not an opportunity to actually use any of the others. Its frustrating and irritating.

And in response to Ben, yes, you can build a non-combatant character that is not useless in combat. But in a combat heavy game, you would use the same card or two as I mentioned above. And then you would get tired and bored and frustrated because you spent so much time building this great character and then you don't even really get to play him/her. And I am not the only person who feels this way. You have this great character with a great story, but the games you are exposed to pretty much make your character useless and then you don't want to play anymore.

M3,I actually like the idea. That is kind of the idea Ashy's quick character gave me, was this really cool spy-like character. She might carry a weapon or two, but she actually focuses on more hand to hand combat and her ninja-like abilities than she does actually weapon combat or even any combat.

MHM ran into the same problem. He likes support characters, but every time he's played as one, they got brutalized really easily. Now, Untold is modular and all, so he COULD have switched out some cards and made this character able to survive and engage in combat, but only by completely rewriting her persona.

As we've gone from trying to define NAU principles and lifestyles, I think it's cool that we've come up to these issues. Fortunately this game is still roughly 'open beta' so these issues can be fixed easily as long as the WM make sure to keep them in mind.

The problems you folks are expressing have to do with the GM and the players, not the game itself. Your GM can chose to tell whatever kinda story they want and lead the character where-ever they like - it's up to them. Also, the players share just as much of a burden in telling this collective story. Instead of sitting through a combat using the same one or two cards, try a different tactic - try talking to the opponent instead of hammering away at them. Or, better yet - talk to your COMPANIONS! :P

Honestly, I'm baffled by this whole line of discussion - in 90% of the demo games I've run at cons, the Twilight in the party winds up charming some numbers of the enemy force or the party winds up talking their way through most of my encounters. As well my home game, there's tons of role-play going on...

Dovebear, maybe you should consider running a game...

Tangents like kudzu vines...

I agree 100% Ashy. In my last demo game, the Twilight actually Charmed another player.

And yes, it matters on who plays, etc.

And I agree that she should run a game, but my pleas fall on deaf ears. I've also offered to run a different game with a different group, but still...

I agree. Unfortunately, the group Ben plays with consist of 1 L'Na, 1 or 2 Highbreds, and the rest are Klik. And when I play Klik, he does not talk. He can communicate with others of his kind, but he does not actually talk. So when we run across a big bad monster (usually undead because that's when Ben likes), then expecting me to talk to him is null and void. And then I have cards like Horologic Instruments, Microgear Medic Disc, Microtool Set, Micro Assembler (which I ended up using in the Fort Walton TBS throw together game to make drones), Tighten Windings, and Mini Probes. I also have Claw Shears and Saw, but those are the ones that get used most often. But I grew so frustrated with the TBS game that I used Micro Assembler to build Razorcog Drones and got rid of the bad guys that way. Unless I'm facing something that is using a mechanical object, either a Klik or creature with Highbred weapons, there isn't much I can do.

And I'm not sure I feel comfortable running a game. But Jonathan and Melissa share some of the same frustrations, so we are going to get together and try out some things. I think Jonathan has some ideas he's wanting to try. We actually have a tentative plan of going to a new game store just around the road from Ben and myself and playing there (he has ample tables for us to use) and seeing how receptive he would be to letting us do a real demo. That's scheduled for the weekend after Labor Day in case you want to announce that. Jonathan knows the name of the store, he's the one that found it and was telling me about it.

And this does not go with the thread, but since we are talking about this, I'm going to mention it. What about creating some puzzle decks? I'm not sure how easy this would be or what it would include. But Hall had a lot of puzzles in his game, and I know Jonathan likes puzzles too. We could even do environment puzzle decks for caves, ruins, Great Machine, etc. And the puzzles could use one or more cards from the deck. Again, this is not overly thought out, so I'm not sure how it would work exactly, but it might be something to consider.

Hurm...to be fair, I think blaming the game for not providing role-play opportunities when you choose for your character not to speak isn't really fair. :P

I would talk to you GM - let him/her know that you're wanting more out of your games than just the "meat-grinder". Tell him you want puzzles, opportunities to use your micro-tools and horologic instruments. I would throw so many doors to unlock and mechanical baddies that can only be defeated by dis-assembly that your eyes would spin. :P

You can't expect your GM to read your mind. Express yourself (both in and out of character)! :D

Trust me, communication on that part is not lacking. I'm just having many issues with many things, this is just one of them. And you are right, on this part, its not really the game's fault, it falls to the GM and the players. And since I have different views of how I like to play, I'm not sure where to go other than trying to get with some people with similar views (Jonathan and Melissa).

I hear ya...too bad you live so far away, I think you'd love my game! :D

We've seriously considered visiting the area. Maybe we could a bunch of folks together sometime at some sort of common ground for a game.

That would be a blast! Let me know some general dates and we'll see if we can't spin something up!

I'd like to get to know you both as well. Helps to know who it is that you're talking to when they're as regular as you two are. You might enjoy some adventures I've cooked up too.

What we need is an UntoldCon. Not really a con, persay, but a time and place where everyone meets once a year to play. We could do Battle, run multiple campaigns, maybe even going hiking and other non-gaming things depending on where it was.

I LOVE this idea!!!

Indeed, a great idea.

Bob, you're an awesome organizer, care to take a stab at this? I already know some great places. :D